Views on bi vs pan debate
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Scavenged
Professional
Scavenged
3 years, 5 months ago by Scavenged
⚠️READ FULLY BEFORE YOU COMMENT⚠️


This is NOT for you to fight, so don't. if you start i will report you to moderators/admin

as someone who has identified as both, i've heard this debate go on for quite some time. i've flip flopped how i feel about it, but with no one to really talk face to face or actually have a convo is important to learning different views you may have never considered

if you're okay with it, i would love to see how people view this debate. whether you think its stupid or valid, you're on one side or another, anything.

Don't respond to others comments!! just state your opinion. if you would like to talk to someone else, dm PRIVATELY and only with their permission. harassment shall be reported.

as there are so many lgbt+ people on here i thought this would be a cool opportunity to see how others think. discourse accounts online are never a good source and its hard to see things outside of them. the moment that any of you start fighting i WILL have this be taken down. you all should be respectful of others opinions, not everyone is going to agree with you.

my comment is the only one you can respond to if you see necessary. i want to learn, and if i have false info please call me out, but do not spread that to others. this isnt the time for "oh you put your opinion so anyone can respond" because that is shameful and rude, this is just to be like "hey, this is how i view it! see if you like it or not!" because i learn best through convo's and examples and i know others do too.

I've heard that pan is biphobic, and bi is transphobic or enbyphobic, etc. and i want to see why you think that. or if you don't even have an opinion and this is something that is stupid to you.


⚠️when you comment, please say "i am open to ____" at the end so others know what you're okay with.⚠️
for example: "I am open to messages and questions, but i am not open for debate" or "i am not open to questions or messages" so that others know if they can further this nicely. if it is an appropriate question, like "hey @Scavenged, where did you get your resources? would you mind sending them to me?" you may put it here, but only if the person put "i am open to questions". same goes for messages.

if you fail to put your preference at the end or beginning of your comment, i will not be responding to it or messaging you and will pretend your comment doesnt exist and i expect the same of others.
Scavenged
Professional
Scavenged
3 years, 5 months ago by Scavenged
Putting your preferences makes sure that this is safe for all users. not everyone is comfortable with talking about this stuff and thats okay, and going past their boundaries is wrong. by putting "i am open to___" it ensures that you will be respected, and if someone does something past what you have stated they can 100% be reported to admin or the moderators right away
lucass_
Bracelet King
lucass_
3 years, 5 months ago by lucass_
my brothers bi. he says that he likes boys and girls, and like he’s like “i feel i can connect better to cis boys and girls because i am cis.” and i don’t think he’s like nO i DoNt LiKe TraNs oR EnBy folks. i just think he’s had more of an attraction to cis folk. but i have amother friend who says that she’s pan cuz she just likes people. gender isnt smthg that she notices. i saw this like meme thing ig and it was like “bi ppl are standing on two feet” and “pan people are laying on the floor.” so i feel personally for me, bi is likin girls and boys, cuz like straight people like one gender so i don’t see why it would be enbyphobic if you just plainly aren’t attracted that way to them. and ik a lot of bi people who change their label to pan cuz they just like people. that me. anyone wanna talk about that, just tag me in this forum plz, i don’t wanna have a convo in pms and also, like if ur gonna get angry or anything, don’t have a convo w me. i’d rather not get into a debate where i feel like have to defend myself. thanks.
roundcat
Professional
roundcat
3 years, 5 months ago by roundcat
I'm Asexual, but am also Bi/Pan/Omni romantic. I'm aware there are subtle differences between the multiple labels, but at the end of the day, they describe people that are attracted to multiple genders, and I use the three interchangeably when describing myself.

Personally, I think the infighting I see within the Bi/Pan/Omni community is distressing, and ultimately reductive. The label one uses for themself is usually a matter of preference/comfort/or awareness rather than one centered in hate. I don't see the bi label as transphobic, I don't see the pan or omni labels as biphobic. What I see is a spectrum of how people experience sexual and romantic attraction towards others, and labels that describe how that attraction works. That's all.

I feel anyone who anyone who tries to exclude or sew division does not have the best intentions in mind for the community. We already face enough discrimination and hate from outside the community, and the whole reason we are the LGBTQ+ community is because we are stronger and can better protect each other as a family than as scattered communities forced to face adversity alone.

I'm open to discussion about this, and please forgive me if I have either misunderstood something or overstepped in some way. I'm still relatively new to the community, so I'm in no way an authority on the issues or debates within the community, This is simply my POV, and I am open to learning more.
onarts_
Bracelet King
onarts_
3 years, 5 months ago by onarts_
I have a pan friend and a bi friend and I personally see it as different. Bi, in my understanding, doesn't mean you can't like trans people bc trans people are still boys and girls. Being bi is that you like both, and my bi friend has told me that they would date someone trans, that doesn't make them pan. My pan friend on the other hand, likes people, she doesnt care about their gender. She could date a cis girl, a cis boy, a trans girl, a trans boy, someone non binary or anyone that identifies as anything else.

Personally I don't see the pan label biphobic or the bi label as transphobic because imo the difference doesnt lie in that. Imo the difference is on how people experience this atraction.

Me as a straight girl, i would also date a trans boy bc they would still be a boy and I don't think that makes me bi or pan.

I am open to dicussion and questions. I am sorry if I got anything wrong, I personally don't belong to this comunity but I've done a lot of research to understand my friends better and because I have questioned myself but yeah, if you have anything that I said that is completly wrong please tell me.
bibean15
Bracelet King
bibean15
3 years, 5 months ago by bibean15
I identify as bi and I don’t believe that being bi is trans/enbyphobic. The way I interpret bi and pan are that bi is an attraction to more than one gender with a preference and pan is attraction to more than one gender without a preference. So basically bi people can have a preference and pan people don’t. Also I don’t believe that being bi is transphobic or enbyphobic because it’s not trans/enbyphobic to have a preference. It becomes transphobic when you don’t respect a person who is trans. I also feel like I wouldn’t say that I being a person identifying as bi wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who’s trans or an enby person, but I do have a preference for people who identify as female, so yeah. My pms are open if people have different opinions just pls be respectful (:
Elise64
Bracelet King
Elise64
3 years, 5 months ago by Elise64
I do not think that pan/omni is biphobic and that bi is transphobic. What I read online (it could be wrong though) is that pansexuals are attracted to all genders but they don’t notice gender, but omnisexuals are attracted to all genders and they do notice gender. When I looked up the different between pan and bi, it said that pansexual is being attracted to all genders and bisexual is being attracted to two or more genders so I’m kind of confused, but I probably need to look it up again because I just looked at the first thing that popped up, I didn’t really have time to research it. I don’t think that bisexual is transphobic. To me, saying that bisexual is transphobic is like saying that if you aren’t attracted to boys, you’re “boy-phobic” (i know that’s not a word lol) which is stupid. Transphobic is when you won’t respect a trans person, not when you’re not attracted to them. Also, if you’re bisexual it means that you’re attracted to two or more genders, so you can be attracted to trans people. I’m sorry if I offended anyone, I don’t think I did but if I did, it wasn’t my intention, and if I am wrong about any of this, feel free to correct me! I am not open to having a big debate (through messages or on this forum), but you can still tag me if anything I said was wrong or for whatever reason. So basically, I don’t want to get into a fight, but I am ok if anyone wants to tag me, if that makes sense.
Elise64
Bracelet King
Elise64
3 years, 5 months ago by Elise64
I think I may have misunderstood the “bi is transphobic part.” I thought that when people said that, they would also say that someone is “boyphobic” (sorry again I know that’s not a word lol) if they don’t like boys, etc, but I realized that they meant that if you’re attracted to boys, but not ftm boys, you’re transphobic (or if you’re attracted to boys but mtf boys, idk which one people are talking about when they say that it’s transphobic to not be attracted to trans people). i kind of get that, but still, it’s only really transphobic if you don’t respect trans people.
Ciao
Bracelet King
Ciao
3 years, 5 months ago by Ciao
My opinion on this would be if you wouldn't date a trans person only for the reason that they are trans, that is transphobic. Trans men are men. Trans women are women.

While the root "Bi" means two, the definition of bisexual that I see most is someone who likes two or more genders. Saying liking "both" genders (referring to just male and female), is enbyphobic, but that is why we change language. And I don't think not liking an androgynous (gender neutral term for masc/fem) person is enbyphobia. Its similar to saying that not liking a feminine person is mysogony, though I think at some point it may be enbyphobia. Also the "2 or more" is referring to the many xenogenders and intersex people.

I am open to anything : D
Elise64
Bracelet King
Elise64
3 years, 5 months ago by Elise64
i’m a little bit confused, so you said not to respond to others in this forum post, but then you said that you can tell people what you are comfortable with. So does that mean that if someone says that they are comfortable for replies on the forum, we are allowed to reply, but if they don’t, then you aren’t allowed to tag them? Because there is someone that I do want to tag,
Elise64
Bracelet King
Elise64
3 years, 5 months ago by Elise64
*but I just wanted to be sure because I don’t want to get reported because I didn’t understand 😄
Scavenged
Professional
Scavenged
3 years, 5 months ago by Scavenged
@Elise64 sorry for the confusion, if they say it's alright then go ahead but be respectful. I got up halfway typing it and forgot to read through before I posted it
Elise64
Bracelet King
Elise64
3 years, 5 months ago by Elise64
ok
Scavenged
Professional
Scavenged
3 years, 5 months ago by Scavenged
@lucass_ thats what most people say, thank you very much for sharing and being respectful. i agree that it isnt enbyphobic or transphobic to not feel attraction to them, it only becomes phobic when you ignore their label, pronouns, and name, having a preference isnt a crime like you said 🙂
Scavenged
Professional
Scavenged
3 years, 5 months ago by Scavenged
@roundcat from what i've seen, it really is just about what you feel fits you. tho i dont agree with some of them that doesnt mean anyone should say one shouldnt be in the community. you werent rude at all and you seem to have a good understanding of the basics! thank you for sharing your views and being respectful
Scavenged
Professional
Scavenged
3 years, 5 months ago by Scavenged
@onarts_ i dont see the other as transphobic either so don't worry. in my personal opinion i do see the pan identity as problematic due to its history and the repetitive burial of what was wrong with it, but that doesnt mean that pansexuals have any less reason to identify as such, and they still deserve all the love everyone else gets. you didnt get anything wrong so dont worry! thank you for being respectful!
lucass_
Bracelet King
lucass_
3 years, 5 months ago by lucass_
hm i have to heard about the pans problematic history. what’s that about? i’m just curious.
Scavenged
Professional
Scavenged
3 years, 5 months ago by Scavenged
@Elise64 you didnt offend anyone with your first comment, so dont worry. i'm also confused on the bi/omni thing, they do sound almost too similar and i dont necessarily agree with that, but they dont deserve any hate. you've basically said all of the surface thing! you've got a lot of it right 🙂 thank you for being respectful and again im sorry for the confusion earlier.

and yes, its not transphobic to not be attracted to someone. you cant control who you like and dont like, it only becomes phobic when you disrespect that person and i really dont like it when people say that they're transphobic. it's usually radicalists who want to remove the other label (like discourse accounts) that make these sort of complains.


⚠️forgot to put this in my others, but anyone may respond to my comments! or pm me, everything is open on my part 🙂⚠️
Scavenged
Professional
Scavenged
3 years, 5 months ago by Scavenged
@Ciao i disagree with the trans part but i see where you're coming from

you dont control who you like, if you're not attracted to someone because of this its okay. or at least in my opinion 🙂

thank you for being respectful!
Scavenged
Professional
Scavenged
3 years, 5 months ago by Scavenged
@lucass_ thats a little hard to address. i'm afraid i'll be banned for talking about it, but basically when the term pansexuality was first created it mean "all" as in everything.... past what is consenting. (if you want more in depth im sorry but i'll have to pm you)

this was a problematic term because of this, and it wasnt until the early 2000's that it started to reshape its meaning and definition, blatantly copying bisexuality but with a twist.

the term pansexuality stole the term "hearts not parts" from bisexuals. it was originally suppose to mean 'i like everyone and parts dont really matter" because of the fact that we're attracted to all parts and it doesnt matter to us what you have, even if we have a preference.

the slogan was taken and used to support these ideals of "hearts" instead of "parts", as in outside of what you should be attracted to.

the pink and blue on the pan flag was used to represent male and female, and for awhile the yellow line was referred to as "everything else", not just meaning enby people but things outside of what is acceptable on the spectrum. it's now referred to as "everyone else"

Miley Cyrus, one of the first celebrities to come out as pan, had to specifically say in an interview " “I am literally open to every single thing that is consenting and doesn’t involve an animal and everyone is of age. Everything that’s legal, I’m down with" due to how problematic the label was. after that it basically started shaping the way the label was perceived from then on.


i am open to criticism and dms 🙂 anyone can call me out if you think what im saying is fishy.


the reason why i myself dont like the term pan (even though its what i originally identified as) is because after the bad parts were removed from the sexualities definition it basically became the bi definition (to me)

this does not mean that i will pretend its not a label nor will i shame others of identifying as such, very few know the in depth history behind it because it got buried
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