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Question to the flat alpha technique

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emp217 Professional	1 year, 1 month ago by emp217 Hello everybody! I am an absolute beginner concerning bracelets. When I was a child, I did some normal knots, we never had a template or any explanation, we just did knots and everything went fine. 😄 Now - 25 years later - I had the idea of knotting a butterly. I searched an searched and found this one: https://www.braceletbook.com/variations/alpha/181482/ I have to say, I am from Austria and it seems that in German you don't find anything concerning alpha and bracelets. Macramée here always has completely different patterns and it seems that it is not used for bracelets like here on this website. Therefore I only found one German Youtube-tutorial. I watched several tutorials from Masha Knots and Krazyknots and also found some others. The alpha knot actually is not difficult, to me it's much more logical to knot in one horizontal row instead of diagonal. So far, so good. So I started with my butterfly and saw, that when switch the colors, it becomes weird and thick. Maybe I also made some mistakes (I certainly made some!), but later I found the flat alpha technique. And here comes my question: Masha Knots explains, that you always knot the next color/string into the current knot. I also saw a video where someone knots the previous color/string into the current knot. What is better? Or do I have to do both? There are some problems with this butterfly. Sometimes there are 3 different colors, 1 knot each. So I would have to knot the previous and the next color into the second one. And at the edge when it switches from blue to grey and I would knot the previous (blue) one into the grey, it would be seen at the edge, so here it would be better to knot the grey one into the blue. I started to mark it on my template. I changed the butterfly a little bit and took the red color for "take the next color into the current knot" and green for "take the previous color into the current knot". Orange means to do both. Can someone please take a look at it and tell me, if I have to do both or only one of these methods? Another question: When i introduced a new color (without flat alpha technique) it always looked as if there were two knots instead of one. It look really weird. I will show you a photo. And yes, I know, that there are some mistakes I didn't mention, but I recognized them (not exactly following the template, taking the string in front instead of behind...). There are some things I am really shocked by myself, it's worse than done by a child. 😄 🙈 Thank you!! Click on the images to resize them. [URL=https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7085/wu96aeu4_jpg.htm][IMG]https://s20.directupload.net/images/231029/temp/wu96aeu4.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7085/dxejazlo_jpg.htm][IMG]https://s20.directupload.net/images/231029/temp/dxejazlo.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7085/f6wrdiq8_jpg.htm][IMG]https://s20.directupload.net/images/231029/temp/f6wrdiq8.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7085/3lc6xjjk_jpg.htm][IMG]https://s20.directupload.net/images/231029/temp/3lc6xjjk.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7085/jl4ionav_jpg.htm][IMG]https://s20.directupload.net/images/231029/temp/jl4ionav.jpg[/IMG][/URL] And here the links, if the BBCode doesn't work. (it's my first post here) https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7085/wu96aeu4_jpg.htm https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7085/dxejazlo_jpg.htm https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7085/f6wrdiq8_jpg.htm https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7085/3lc6xjjk_jpg.htm https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7085/jl4ionav_jpg.htm
halokiwi Moderator	1 year, 1 month ago by halokiwi I'm German, so if you ever struggle with understanding an English explanation, just let me know and I'll translate it to German for you 😄 You can do both. You can put the previous leading string through the first knot of the new colour and you can put the new leading string through the last knot of the previous colour. I think doing both at once is best, but if you do just one, that's fine too. I do both all the time except at the edges. If I consistently do both, I don't have to think about which is better to do when. So you really don't have to make it as complicated as making a decision which colour switch to do for each knot. When making colour switches at the edge, you either need to do a regular colour switch, not a flat alpha colour switch or you need to do only one of the two options of doing a flat alpha colour switch. This way you can avoid leading strings sticking out at the edge. I think you probably just need some practice. You seem to have understood the technique very well from what you are describing and from all the thoughts you had about it 😄 Code does not work on the braceletbook forum btw. The only code you can do is tagging users by putting @ in front of a username: @emp217 and tagging patterns by putting # in front of a pattern number: #23134. So when you have a link, it's best to just post the link as it is, as it's easier to copy paste the link then, because you can't click it.
emp217 Professional	1 year, 1 month ago by emp217 Oh, that's funny, two German speakers writing in English, so that everyone who is interested in it can read it. 😂 My English is not the problem, but you are right, I really need more practice! And more threads, 8 m Moulinée is not the longest choice, but it's beautiful. You always do both, that means also when you don't switch a color, you lead through the previous string? You mean the clear alpha technique? I watched a tutorial about it. It's actually not difficult, but really complex with this butterfly, because you are switching colors all the time. I think, for the beginning this may be too complicated. And you need a looooot more threads. I think I cant lead the background color through the whole butterfly - 4 rows already is 1 meter! I am really stunned how much thread this technique needs! Thank you so far, I will try to do both, but only if I switch the colors or within the butterfly without the background color. 🤔
halokiwi Moderator	1 year, 1 month ago by halokiwi I only carry the leading string inside the knot before and after colour switches. I think you might have confused the flat alpha technique with the clean back alpha technique. In the clean back alpha technique, you carry the unused leading strings inside the knots in a way that no loose leading strings are visible in the back. If you don't want to achieve that effect, you only need to carry the leading string in the knot right before and/or after the colour switch. (if you want me to be notified when you reply to this, you need to tag me in your message btw)

emp217 Professional	1 year, 1 month ago by emp217 @halokiwi: Ah, I understand. No, I did not confuse flat alpha and clean alpha, but I was confused by your sentence "I always do both". So I understood that you "always always" carry all strings not only when switching the color. If you meant you always* take the previous and the next string an "always" means "always when switching colors" so then I know now what you mean. Therefore I said that the clean alpha with this butterfly would be too complex. At least for me, doing this the first time. Although it really would look better. I will see, maybe if I improve and do it several times, I can do a clean alpha with this...I just don't think so. 😄
halokiwi Moderator	1 year, 1 month ago by halokiwi Oh yeah, by "I always do both" I meant that I always carry the leading string in one knot before and one knot after a colour switch. Sorry for the confusion. In MashaKnots' video she only describes how to do it after colour switches. Carrying the leading string in the knot after a colour switch leads to issues when trying to do a colour switch at the edge. She mentions that you need to do a regular colour switch at the edge instead to avoid this issue. I suspect that lots of people don't watch the video up until this point, because I see questions about this issue a lot. If you still want to do a flat alpha colour switch for a colour switch when you are knotting towards the edge, you have to carry the leading string in the knot before the colour switch.
halokiwi Moderator	1 year, 1 month ago by halokiwi "Always" was more to accentuate that I do it for every colour switch except for colour switches at the edges where I only do one option.
emp217 Professional	1 year, 1 month ago by emp217 "If you still want to do a flat alpha colour switch for a colour switch when you are knotting towards the edge, you have to carry the leading string in the knot before the colour switch." This is exactly what I mean. Thanks! This shows me that my thoughts are not wrong! 😄 And as you say so I remember what Masha said in this video for the edges. But remebering the theory and understandig the practice are two different things. 😂 😂 Thank you! Now I know that I am on the right path! 🙂
emp217 Professional	1 year ago by emp217 Have a look, please. I am doing much better now! 🙂 Really proud! 😊 https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7087/3mbknpf9_jpg.htm https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7087/vi3v5s3s_jpg.htm But you said "you always do both". But you only can do both if there are 3 different colors one after another. And I think you can see this because this knot always is a little bit thicker. Hm...is this right so?
emp217 Professional	1 year ago by emp217 @halokiwi: sorry, I forgot to tag you.
halokiwi Moderator	1 year ago by halokiwi I'll look at the photos later, but I mean the knot before the colour switch I carry the leading string of the colour that I'm about to switch to in the knot and the knot after the colour switch I carry the leading string of the colour that I just switched from in the knot If there are three knots of three colours abc In the knot of colour a, there is the string of colour b In the knot of colour b, there are strings of colour a and c And in the knot of colour c, there is the string of colour b

emp217 Professional	1 year ago by emp217 @halokiwi: Yes, this is what I mean - in the knot b there are also color a and c. But you will see that in your knots because knot b is a little bit thicker than the others. And sometimes you see the previous/next string in the actual leading string. Maybe this is because I didn't tighten it enough? I tried my best.
halokiwi Moderator	1 year ago by halokiwi For alphas the general recommendation is to tie a little looser and not super tight. It is completely normal, that sometimes the unused leading strings will poke out of the knots a little. Pulling on the end of the leading string sometimes helps in these cases.
emp217 Professional	1 year ago by emp217 @halokiwi: Take a look, I am really proud of it! 🙂 https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7099/3n2a28oa_jpg.htm https://www.directupload.net/file/d/7099/almjo7dh_jpg.htm I am just not happy with the end. My strings were really really short and not all the same length anymore at the end. The next one will be even better! 🙂 Can you tell me please... I just found a video (in Spanish, but you don't have to understand what she says). The knots there are different - they are horizontal, not diagonal. And there are always two knots instead of one in a row. Do you have any idea with knot that is? To me it looks the same als a usual alpha forward knot.
emp217 Professional	1 year ago by emp217 sorry, I forgot the link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=wAFmE7mYVEQ2pwQ3&v=6MBOs0LFJYo&feature=youtu.be
emp217 Professional	1 year ago by emp217 Ah, the knot is named festoon in English. Never heard of that before. In your tutorials for bracelets I only find the alpha knot. I am just trying to find a knot that does not distort the pattern because of its knot-length.
halokiwi Moderator	1 year ago by halokiwi I found this tutorial on the festoon knot http://craftypursenalityshoppe.blogspot.com/2011/08/knotting-strap-festoon.html?m=1 Festoon seems to be the Spanish name. Not sure what the English would be.

halokiwi Moderator	1 year ago by halokiwi I think your photos look absolutely lovely 😍 you did a very good job. The next time, just to be on the safe side, make the base strings a little longer to avoid running out of them. You can just trim them to all be the same length once you are done.
halokiwi Moderator	1 year ago by halokiwi The person in the video just makes her knots upside down. They are not structurally different from regular forward knots or backward knots (or alpha knots as you call them). I can recommend this video https://youtu.be/pEcqSy_ZVk4?si=sWTBsJigsyF1II1o
emp217 Professional	1 year ago by emp217 Upside down? I am fascinated how many ways there are to tie two strings! 😲 😲 😲 😂 What do you think, do you recommend the clean back technique for this butterfly? I think it's too much to carry through all 5 colors, the knots would be too big and not that beautiful?

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